Question: I read in the letters-to-the-editor section of [a major U. In her temples, Isis was often depicted with her son, Horus, on her lap. Horus was conceived with a revivified god. Pagan traditions are as valid as other spiritual paths, and instead of insisting that their path is the only one, isn't it about time that Christians develop respect for what others believe? Response: The letter writer is using a lot of false information, especially in claiming that the mythical birth of Mithras was similar to the birth of Jesus.
Stephano Rotondo. Chile citizens celebrities he probably felt responsible for the destinies of the humiliated remnants of one of the greatest families virgiin the world, the 15 high priests who shared his same condition. The fact is, mothers have been holding their infants since human history began. They all died descended into hades and rose again like him. They were not similar, in any detail, Mythra god born virgin will be explained later. He put forward the notion of the "Noble Lie", suggesting that the masses were too intellectually feeble to handle the truth, and Mytura instead needed myths to be steered right. Mithra comes to the fore among the created beings. Rather Mithras is always described as born from Mythra god born virgin rock.
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However we can no doubt note the similiarity of the Immaculate conception which is the Mythra god born virgin of all the births of these deities including Mythra god born virgin The theme of the teaching god and the 12 is found within Mithraism. Unlike various other rock- or cave-born gods, Mithra is not depicted in the Roman cultus as having been given birth by a mortal woman Mythra god born virgin a goddess; hence, it is claimed that he was not "born of a virgin. Probably a white male Christian. Horus was an egyptian God not an ethopian-sudanese God. What I would like you to elucidate is if the gospel writers were anonymous, is this a fact Preethi varma fucking by conservative christian? JC Quote. And one would indeed expect the Medes and Persians to have brought this festival with them into their new lands, including the Near East, where they would have eventually encountered Romans, who could hardly have missed this common solar motif celebrated worldwide in numerous ways. Amir-Moezzi also says These fathers included Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Julius Firmicus Maternus and Augustine, all of whom attributed these striking correspondences to the prescient devil. Many Roman soldiers did worship a mythical god named Mithras, but there is no record of any ancient tradition involving a December 25th birth date for Mithras.
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Oakes Podcast. I see this claim everywhere on the internet and in a few books by skeptics trying to make parallel claims of Jesus to Mithras. The ones claiming this do not have a primary resource, I was just curious if you have heard of anything along these lines of a supposed inscription?
I did a study on Mithraism parallels few months back and I never heard this inscription until recently. The inscription was supposedly found in the area of Lake Humum, Iran. Nabarz is not very careful about giving his sources and he is very selective in his use of the primary sources, so we should be cautious about accepting what he says. Also, in order to judge his claims we would have to know the context and the full inscription. The Roman version of the birth of the god Mithra is that he was born from a rock.
This is cherry-picking. Also, in the Mithraic tradition, Anahita and Mithra become co-gods who preside over the pastures MIthra and over the waters Anahita. Any parallel between the Zoroastrian Mithra and Jesus of Christianity is minor, whereas the differences are great. For example, in the Zoroastrian story, MIthra is born from a god, whereas in the Christian story, he is born from a vulnerable human. Again, the parallel is minor and the difference is major. Add to this the fact that Mary was a real person and neither Mithra nor Anahita are real in any sense of the word.
We know where Mary lived, we know the name of her husband, of her cousin and the names of four of her children. Do atheists have new evidence that Jesus did not live? Was Mary still a virgin when Jesus was born? John Oakes. A Survey of World Religions by Dr. All rights reserved.
Paris: Libr. The name was changed from Gita to Bhagavad Gita. AKA your i-phone is achievement for the internet structure and communicating abilities it has not for the personal access to these things. Rev ; My own mind is my own church.
Mythra god born virgin. Primary Sidebar
Israeli archaeologists have been desperately excavating the site for many decades yet not one iota of evidence of the existence of King Solomon has been found. No mention of his name has been found on any tablet, inscription, tax record or pot decoration. Anyone who has visited Egypt will have seen widespread evidence of a monarch who reigned three hundred years before Solomon, Pharaoh Rameses II, yet of King Solomon who ruled over a vast empire and army 1 Kings 4, and 1 Kings 9, , 2 Chronicles 9, there is no trace.
All the vassal peoples who paid taxes to him have left not a single record of account or inscription. Not one of the soldiers of his conquering army left a sword, helmet or shield. Do not talk about truth cause truth is there is know evidence of anything in the bible being true.
And its funny every other culture and religion has left something for the world to see the bible has nothing but a book with nothing to back it up. Chris Quote. Abraham served one God only and dispelled put down superstition.
No satans not working overtime, but those who believe in him have taken upon themselves a burdasome yoke. I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy. But, lest it should be supposed that I believe in many other things in addition to these, I shall, in the progress of this work, declare the things I do not believe, and my reasons for not believing them.
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe.
It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime. He takes up the trade of a priest for the sake of gain, and in order to qualify himself for that trade, he begins with a perjury.
Every national church or religion has established itself by pretending some special mission from God, communicated to certain individuals. The Jews have their Moses; the Christians their Jesus Christ, their apostles and saints; and the Turks their Mahomet, as if the way to God was not open to every man alike. Each of those churches show certain books, which they call revelation, or the word of God. The Jews say, that their word of God was given by God to Moses, face to face; the Christians say, that their word of God came by divine inspiration: and the Turks say, that their word of God the Koran was brought by an angel from Heaven.
Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all. As it is necessary to affix right ideas to words, I will, before I proceed further into the subject, offer some other observations on the word revelation.
Roman Emperor Vespasian was declared a God at the behest of his son Tutus when the latter became emperor of Rome. Mithraism was pervasive throughout the Roman Empire but that religion came out of Persia and since the Romans and Persians were always at war, The Romans decided to create their own religion to tame the Jews and to unify their Empire under a religion created by them Romans. Liberate yourself.
I have never seen this movie you speak of But if you are so blind that you can not see the truth with your own eyes then I truly feel sorry for you. The stories, all stories in the bible are reworked from hundreds and sometimes thousands of years before the birth of Christianity.
It is no coincidence that all of the 3 big religions began at the same time on the same spot they just stole their ideas from a Pharaoh named Akhenaton who was the first to worship a monotheistic god. Rip Quote. The story of Jesus is a mish-mash — What historical studies are you basing this on? Which religious figure is Jesus a copy of? I would certainly not any of the ones described above. The Big 3 religions began at the same time on the same spot: The first 5 books of the Bible, which are also the first books of the Jewish Torah, date back to BC.
Christianity was founded in ca. The Koran of Islam was written in approximately AD. Keep the faith man. Jesus is the only truth, all the other religions just fooled people. Todd Quote. I think he has every right to question and think. If jesus died for us on the cross to give us the gift of life then apart of that gift is to experience life for our selves and respecting the opinions including religious belief of another is also apart of the good deeds of life — that is what god would want for us all.
Think about it. Also, Many stories of the old testament were written way before the birth of Jesus to name but a few yet there are so many simalarities, I really enjoyed reading the old testament. Griffo Quote. That does not mean I find them to be valid from a spiritual standpoint. Jesus Christ said: I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Jesus declared Himself the exclusive way to Heaven. Once again, it is your choice to believe or not believe that but that is the standard that Jesus set Himself.
Lord have mercy. Point goes to: The other guys. JC Quote. I do like this post as I agree that their are many inaccuracies taking the zeitgeist movie seriously. However to disillusion yourself into factually believing that any religion is not a grouping of older stories and legends that manifest into a cohesive cultural position is just being poorly actuated to anthropological understanding.
Even the book of Issiah previously mentioned is and was at one point a passing of previous concepts, that manifested into a finalized story. Their truth is there were tons of individualized Hebrew stories that were not only discarded but were chosen to not be in what was the augmentation of the bible. Christians like to overlook that there is a wonderful 70 year gap between the events described and the main forming of the bible.
Greed and other things that Solomon taught against and selfish pride and activation were rampant. Even if we go off the story of Jesus with the Jewish Merchants when he losses his temper. That gap gave a substantial amount of time for exaggeration. Not to mention that the very people who condemned him seem to have no recollection of the rebirth and raising of Christ.
Also no Roman ever mentions the ascension just the note of yeah we killed that guy. The fact is that all religions have come from earlier forms and meld with the transfer of cultures. The fact is that tribal turns to local, which in turn goes to societal and a cohesion of all the tribal gods that represented those ideals become accepted especially shown throughout Hinduism and then by societal are rebuked by ideals of monotheism. This made the transition to monotheism easy as like zeitgeist Paul was preaching an argument.
One with so many facts it was easy to counter the arguments. We now have tons of cultures with tons of religions how do you pick between the cults in Rome denounce the other religions as iconic demons that have tricked you for centuries, and remove their traits from your idol.
Use Jewish legends that are monotheistic and cohesive with the group of your savior, during the hermetic revolution when we were combining religions to explain them.
All religions are cohesive the principles of Christianity in the new testament argue and dis way against previous religions, this means they used previous religions as a format of what not to do. So you still used their principles you still used their terms they used, and you still define the idol in the same reference just singularly.
We need to learn from the religions for what they are, like the ancient mystery schools lets move to the next conscious point of questioning, like the ancients we should find the best way to adapt from our many teachings, and while zeitgeist is a historical train-wreck the concept is founded, by the fact of religious upheaval taking p residence to the exact ancient teachings.
Even if by unlikely-hood aliens even were the gods we speak of in every book or depiction our understanding would be a fragmentation of their truth, not to mention the fact that they would have been exploiting us.
So In my opinion the argument should leave both the transcendental and real realms and find a ground of moral magnitude through romanticizing thought, and achieving greatness by activating sciences for higher societal purposes. AKA your i-phone is achievement for the internet structure and communicating abilities it has not for the personal access to these things. Otherwise they are just as big of hindrances for a large portion of society. Where as it is a building point to augmented reality which will benefit us all by removing factual base into records.
Or otherwise put: the pyramids, Machu pichu, and all the ancient sites show a clear integration of all aspects of their own culture into a whole societal concept that built and made wonders.
Our sky scrappers will be a blemish on our mark if they even make it to another sentient finding them. Lawn Statesman Quote. Thanks for your post. I guess like others before I will simply ask you to provide evidence of a historical source that says that the Biblical authors stole the content of the Bible from other religions.
Where is your data? So far no one has provided any real evidence. Secondly, a 70 year gap is an incredibly short amount of time for a figure from antiquity. When you look at the accounts of Julius Ceasar, Alexander the Great or other legendary people of that era whose histories I am sure you trust and believe completely the time from their deaths to the manuscripts chronicling their lives — it took centuries for them to be written.
IN the case of Caesar it was 1, years before the earliest manuscript about his life was written. Christianity is not about moral action. It is about Jesus Christ, God incarnate, who died for the sins of humanity. And it is only through faith in Him for the forgiveness of our sins that we receive salvation. I am confiding here that this topic is even above siting as there is no one individual idea here to site You kind site the Mithra statues but not there intent.
It is off of positional dissidence that the need to site even comes from. So I would be forever site adhered to sources that both of us could be right or wrong on. Christians are one hundred percent on board with the idea that the anthropological idea of diffusion for religion makes sense from tribal to modern position on all religions besides Christianity.
If I had posited the idea in based on Hinduism or tribal practice and taboo moving into societal shamanism, diffusion is allowed in the christian mindset. But that last step from polytheist paganism into the modern conclusion denounces diffusion saying it is divine transcript and is original. I am right because that was taught to me, even though if I was born in Iraq I would probably be fighting that battle on a Muslim perspective.
So what I am saying is that if you believe all the other religions functioned off of this activity what made Christianity special?
As for the 70 years comment that was my least researched piece of my argument and I do find honest conviction on your statement to the degree of chronicling their achievements. I am just saying in an age of date recording as a ritualized habit where is records of him doing miracles, I am agreeing that there is dissidence in long term recording, but those records had other resources. Logs, date books, and verbal tradition seems to be lacking when it comes to the new testament.
I mean there are even roman scholars that are using Gaelic sources in their documents about the Gallic wars as propaganda. The New Testament only has one sited source the bible… and that is where we run into problems. So I can not allow for a single site, when the only other single sites in history have been fiction or unverifiable so we do not accept them as fact.
If we do it is only as a loose term that may be incorrect. I mean think about it if Jesus is turning water into wine everybody is talking about it. Roman priests about how he is a demon, the Greek counterpart on how he is a great philosopher, and we find nothing. David Copperfield still gets huge press when we know its fake.
It would have been a huge ordeal that was documented by many people. Even if it was just by locality if we have those documents is another story but we have quite a bit. To sum up my response, siting here runs us into a gambit of artifacts and symbolism. I am truly arguing concept and that is all, as the standard I am using is what the anthropological community has accepted.
On highly scrutinized overview because of the damage that religion imputed into the first anthropological ideas. Debating how we get religions that exist today just is not that compelling without evidence.
Where is this evidence everyone is talking about but not presenting? At some point we have to see it so we can all evaluate it and make a decision from there. Your comment that Caesar had all these different people writing about him. Who are they? Again, when it comes to actual extant manuscripts, in existence today regarding Caesar, they are from 1, years after his death. So the notion that there all these documents around from his contemporaries and we have original copies is not true at all.
And again, I would just ask that you provide some evidence of the contrary if I am wrong. He was not someone who had worldwide acclaim. He lived in a small part of the world and during his ministry never left it.
You say the New Testament only cites the Bible. And historians like Flavius Josephus cited the Bible repeatedly. Again, if you have evidence to present please share it. But with all due respect, just speculating on history is not the best way to figure this issue out. Thanks again for your comments. Also the caesar thing, extant manuscripts detailing his entire life did not exist until an entire years afterwards, that much is true.
Blackjesus Quote. In the name Jesus there is not any number, unlike yours, where the term release refers to a Gaseous state. Also, who cares if jesus was made up? Its like the 3 little pigs, does the story need to be proven to be real for there to be a significance to its larger meaning?
Your point however shines the light on the wrong subject. It was Zeitgeist that was a complete and utter fabrication. I am curious as to why you do not take issue with it. The real question to ask is why the producers and writers of Zeitgeist did this in the first place? What was their agenda? Clearly it was beyond trying to proclaim that Christianity is all fables. It was a concerted, premeditated effort to discredit the Bible and deceive people with their historical inaccuracies.
I am curious as to your thoughts on this. I take delight in Him! You will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dismal place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. Far from it. I really thought you knew what you wrote about, however you choose a writer that supports your theory and bomb away with side-notes on their work. I am disappointed but should have known. O Quote. Why not provide some of the evidence from the 10 PhD scholars that you know?
Where are the links? Are you asserting that in Egyptian mythology, Horus was born of a virgin? Or that in Mithraism, Mithras was crucified, died 3 days later and resurrected? What parts of these religions did the article get incorrect?
Just provide the evidence of this whenever you get the chance. Oh and P. You know that the bible says about this type, just pray for him and keep it moving. FollowerOfChrist Quote. I normally would not just start up a debate but Dr. I am tired, believe what you want but again your articles are grossly incorrect mithra worship predates jesus by over years, sumarians by ove And that is also typical of a religious fenatic.
Ok um… What does the catholic priest have to do with anything? Who told you that? They lied to you. Hello, were you reading the article? This is crazy. What was I thinking?!!! Anyways, my prayers are with you man. Please, If you do let me know. Honestly, do I need to answer that? The top theologians in all major religions agree in one thing and it contradicts the information presented here. The priest, my good friend simply laughed at the article because it has false information.
Seek knowledge, from religious sources even. Just… go talk to a senior priest of any major religion, show them the article and my point is proven. If religion is all you know, of course you are an athiest, the three great religions have proven that way beyond reproach or doubt. Take Hindu for an instant, steep yourself in that 4 a few year, will you come out God fearing, athiest or confused, there alway the exception,.
All religion defy God but the Truth will set the person free despite his occultist religion. She should post like an adult and when someone has proof against her she just uses the devil did it. My 5 yr old could come up with something better. Just for you. Jupiter who is Lucifer is held up as God this is evidenced especially in the work of the Sistine Chapel—which pictures God in an idolatrous, anthropomorphic way. Izzy Quote. I agree totally, sadly such is true for all religions.
Like I posted above, take any article here to any serious religion discussion group religion of your liking and you will be laughed at. Try to pass the Illuminati conspiracy presented here as a serious article anywhere… Really, you will be embarrassed.
Your knowledge of greek religion is inferior and generic, go to a local college please, let them teach you that what you say is just one of many interpretations. All false by the way, zeus is as real as god, jesus or the easter bunny. I am not presenting merely my opinion, I am talking about the same information thought to priests, ministers and pastors during their studies,.
O, Please verify biblical knowledge superiority of your catholic priest, you Have to you disposal, by asking following questions; 1. Where in the Bible does it say Jesus was crucified in Friday? Where The Bible commands us to celebrate Easter? Where The Bible speaks of the church as being a building, an institution, an organization? Where in The Bible does it say we must pray for the dead, To the dead? Where in the Bible does it say Mary must be venerated?
Where in the Bible does it say we must go to confessional? Where in The Bible does it say babies can be baptized? Where in The Bible does it say we are to bow down to icons, crosses, Dead bones?
Where in The Bible does it say anything about rosaries? Where in the Bible does it say anything about Holy Water? Where in The Bible does it say we are saved by works and not by Faith alone?
Where in The Bible does it say we must pray repetitive, Memorized prayer, where does it say we are to pray to Mary?? If your catholic priest cannot answer ONE of these Questions He can leave his position a priest, He has no business of preaching to his flock. TheTruthSeeker Quote. What is your point? To bash Catholics? I can do that for you, so how about you find your own ft and ask away. O, You should not debate Scriptures you know so little about.
If you would you never consult a catholic priest. Tithing, even though is biblica, is not relevant to believers, because it was ties to The Temple and Levitical priesthood. Tithe meaning tenth. It is produce not money. Fishermen, pottery makers, carpenters were not obligated to tithe. So, biblically ignorant man, I do not tithe. Also, clean up your mouth. It is filthy. I read the book of Matthew the other day and Chapter 13 makes me think of all those individuals posting negative comments.
Christ explaining to the disciples why he spoke in parables to the multitude. Janine Quote. What I really love about this site and the holy spirit inside me gets this vibe is not only is a lot of the information presented factual but not once have you tried to defame, or put a person to shame but you always welcome them with open arms. I love that and it really shows what a follower of Christ should be like.
Luke student when fully grown becomes like the teacher. Keep spreading the truth and peace! FollowerOfChrist : What I really love about this site and the holy spirit inside me gets this vibe is not only is a lot of the information presented factual but not once have you tried to defame, or put a person to shame but you always welcome them with open arms. Thank you so much for the kind words. And everything at Beginning and End is done to try and glorify Christ in a spirit of the love He showed to all people.
And frankly, I am honored to have those who think and believe differently come on the site to share their ideas. Beginning and End, thank you. Just a few Saturdays ago someone close to me brought this information to my house and we discussed it.
I just had a lot of questions. I shared the link with him. Either way, to God be the glory for always being the One to give the increase that some may have planted and others watered. And as one person alluded to in earlier comments, and as I shared with my friend…..
Jesus is not going to force Himself on any of us…. Tambrin Quote. You may have done a good job in debunking the similarities in Horus vs Jesus but to go so far as to say Jesus life was well documented is a little much. The bible was written long after Jesus had left the earth. Many portions of the bible have been excluded. The story cannot be taken for face value because only a few persons were allowed to translate the story.
Any human able to translate it would of make mistakes, misinterpret and wrote stories that would be acceptable to the laws and beliefs of the times. Kamil Quote. Finally, the light of knowledge shines through! I have come close to crucifixion.
What points are you wanting proved,because it is extremely obvious that the overal story of Jesus is borowed to some degree from religious ideas that predate it. The resemblence of all religions are based off the same principle. That principle is the cosmological universe ie the Sun,planets,forces of nature,etc The origin of Chirst is definitely based off the personification of the Sun. This is obvious even without relation to historical references.
Question is simply which predates which,and I think we all know the Nile Valley civilization predates them all. That is my claim. There are references to a Jesus,historical figure,named Panthera,but my claim is that no biblical Jesus ever existed nor did any of the things claimed in the New Testament! Again I say never existed in the biblical sense. This also true of the original religions. They are only personficaitons of the forces of nature and the natural celestial bodies of the Universe..
Mac Quote. Thank you, you have made my day. B n E… Do you have any evidence to support your claims other than wikipedia? Yes plagiarized, Noah outdates all religion, so does Zarathustra and Abrahams was early, the promise to man in Adams day was the beginning of religion, was Jesus plagiarized or was it the fulfillment of prophecy???
We only live IN this world, but do not make ourselves PART of it, for we know that it wrought of wickedness and deceit—and that His Kingdom is greater than any human concept, even of pure uninstitutionalized freedom. The worst part? They themselves controlling beings of their own, who control beings down to humans and animals and sometimes plants or inanimate objects.
This stretches far through the universe but is still substantially smaller than those who are allied to God, The Father. Their irony is in their self-destructive tendencies. Satan, of course, knows this as he also, again ironically knows his demise is nigh as all Angels even the fallen ones can see into the future though not their own as far as the extent of their lives. Unfortuneately, and I hate to say it, many of you may be a part of the Apostasy.
He successfully implanted Christ in local mythologies instead of abolishing and replacing them altogether. Yes I have many references but only willing to share a few! What are you wanting referenced? For starters virgin birth of Buddha who predates Jesus by thousands of years.
This interpretation has led to parallels being drawn with the birth story of Jesus. The story of the birth of the Buddha was known in the West, and possibly influenced the story of the birth of Jesus. Other parallels in the birth stories include: Maya conceived during a dream, Mary conceived around the time of a visitation from an angel.
Heavenly wonders appeared in the sky. Sages came to visit the newborn and make prophecies of auspicious careers. Here is a link! Very brief! The virgin birth predates Christ by milleneums. The amount of sources are enormous! Thanks for getting back to me with links. But first off, we should note that you make the assumption that since something is older anything similar must have stolen or been influenced by it.
Buddah — The link you provide from Wiki provides absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the account of life of Jesus was copied from the story of Buddah. And it does say that she was married for 20 years which would imply she was not a virgin. So one there is ancient Buddhist text cited.
So this argument fails. Well what matters is the book of Isaiah which is where the prophecy of the Messiah being born of a virgin was written. And that was years before Christ. So the Bible was still ahead of Buddhism in this regard. Additionally, Jesus and Buddha had completely different lives and missions. Remember, the rules on virginity in the Bible were in the Old Testament, which was written in Hebrew.
Your etymomlogy link is in Greek. All throughout the Old Testament the Bible distinguishes between a virgin and a woman who has had sexual relations. So this argument completely fails. It merely references ancient myths. So again, this would be 3 centuries after the Bible recorded a prophecy of a virgin birth. All the other examples from your source fall after that so they are not relevant to the discussion. For one, their lives again have nothing in common. Secondly, Osiris, if you study ancient non-Christian sources is the deified King Narmer of Ancient Egypt who was none other than the Babylonian King Nimrod who conquered Egypt as part of his vast empire.
Nimrod is mentioned in the Bible in Genesis 10 and many other chapters. And he is clearly an enemy of God. His efforts to make the tower of babel was thwarted by God directly.
So to think that a man so clearly identified as a villain and pagan rebel in the Old Testament, is somehow the Messiah in the New Testament makes little sense. So I think that with all due respect, these arguments are reaching.
And none of these links show even close parallels between the life of Jesus and any other figure to conclude that the Bible was copying. Acts 5. Acts Peter 2. Also the validity of Jesus of the Bible is being questioned heavily by scholars and religious priest alike. Western religion and philosophy is purely fabrication or plagarism to some degree if not all degrees as hist. However we can no doubt note the similiarity of the Immaculate conception which is the highlight of all the births of these deities including Jesus!
Please note the Bible has been continuously edited,changed,and revised therefore the validity of the Bible is highly questionable as it entered many European hands. Therefore my claim is also that the Bible is not a valid source of historical information.
So what reason do I have to not assume this meant the birth of Buddha or any other of the deities who predates Jesus,since the claim is that it happen with them and also considering the bible was re-written multiple times before becoming what it is today,using information found in earlier religious text?
This is a no-no! Too many inaccuracies and plagarized stories but thats another topic which we can deal with as well. This is irrefutable!! And it is just not productive to offer historical references to show this. When especially I can show the opposite. As per the Old testament, the fist civilization originated in Mesopotamia, where any secular source will confirm is the oldest civilization not Egypt. So God and his followers pre-date Egypt.
Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female.. And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
First off, in Buddhist texts themselves it denies the virgin birth of Buddha. Your own source says this. Secondly, Jerome did translate the Bible, but he is no prophet or Apostle.
And thus he is fallible. Just as much as people who believe prosperity Gospel or Mormons, etc. They are incorrect in their theology. Context, context, context. This is how you properly interpret the text. In the context of the Bible, virgin clearly means a woman who has not had sex. And here you are incorrect as I will just direct you to the Dead Sea Scrolls, the greatest literary find of antiquity.
And the book of Isaiah specifically is held out as the example of how similar they are. This is why textual criticism is so important. When we examine manuscripts and the history behind them, these issues become easy to resolve. Especially when Egypt has no god who a life anything remotely similar to that of Jesus?
There is a great deal of evidence to support this, and the wikipedia entry on Osiris does not even look into this question. I would strongly recommend the Giza Discovery by Peter Goodgame which provides a treasure trove of evidence, academic sources and links to support this:. I can really see your passion for these issues of history.
I hope and pray that your passion for your eternal destiny is just the same. So are you a Buddhist or believer in Egyptian religions? However literary proof? Even in Meso-America there exist the African prescence.
All of which predate the biblical civilizations you speak of! Here is a detailed article which deals with the African Egpytian origin of the Indus Valley and also the true origin of Buddha before Aryan invasion and plagarizing of the concept of Buddhism,thus providing the obvious gateway of migration of religions concepts in other regions of the world. It would only make sense that they settled in mesopatamia. Article on the African prescence in Meso-America!
Worshippers of the cosmos! I warned you that you couldnt use the bible to validate history. Also a scholar named Dr. This he states was done after the Europeans were re-taught by the Moors to read and write thus taking the Europeans out of the Dark Ages and into the Renaissance Era. This was viewed as a problem by Christian leaders because it meant common people would soon have their hands on the Bible,therefore it would no longer be limited to priest or kings,etc.
Thus you will notice the Europeans rushing their translations of the Bible,the disputes of which is the correct one…etc. So God and his followers pre-date Egypt! However a couple of other points! The Sphinx,which according to multiple sources,one of which I will leave with you is now being found to date back to as far 10,b. Be advised,no uncivilized group could build the Sphinx with such mathmatical proportion to the cosmos! Egyptian chronology was created through Manethos,not the bible!
But lets not get off subject here! Predates biblical civiilization! Thus the biblical history you are using as a shield is shattered versus tangible evidence presented in my sources! I could go all day on this subject. It is a ridiculous thing to use the bible to verify history in accordance with anthropological and scientfic evidence. All these groups are shown to have birth the civilizations of Egypt or along the Nile Valley,I should say. Also note they were all what you would call worshippers of the heaven!
And thus he is fallible! Again Jerome is a well known scholar and widely accepted for his scholarship in translating the very scripture you are using to verify history. I cannot understand this. This is equivalent to saying you use Microsoft software,but refuse to pay proper respect to the very man who was extemely important in its successs,Bill Gates!
He didnt invent computer software,but he translated it into a usable language! Therefore you denounce your own Christian forefather,theologian and historian! I take it you havent read up on him! What reason would one have to not believe this? And the book of Isaiah specifically is held out as the example of how similar they are…. Lets not be deceptive on our play of words. I clearly stated on July 8, However please read the following article which St.
The legend of Osiris was preserved in the Ethiopian Empire which spread up to the Egyptian lands! Again Asar predates Menes. Her is an article in which there is evidence that support the reality that Asar was present in the land of Anu prior to Menes reign in 1st dynastic period of Egypt! I dont understand your question. Categorizing will not be necessary!
However I will await your rebuttal and leave you this enormous amount of evidence in hopes that you enjoy the read and weigh the evidence! This subject matter can get very lengthy but I dont have the time I need and want to totally obliferate these claims you made in your article. Because be mindful we have just discussed Buddha only and have yet to. This page contains the picture of the proposed ancestor of the world one of them. Please note I could not post the picture in the space provided so here is the link..
Here is a pic of priest head dated around b. Sorry for the long delay in our discussion. As our reader Brandon pointed out, I ended the discussion without ever replying to your last set of posts. Mac, your patience and dedication are inspiring, wonderful job. Aparently, even when you provide the evidence requested you are still wrong.
I would love to invite you to do a phone interview for a small show I host. I love the fact that you not only research but have the patience to deal with… whatever this page is. I know it has been awhile since you commented on this, but I just read through all these posts today. Joe Quote. A good, severe, solid and well-documented answer to quite hard a issue that Zeitgeist claimed when it bursted out and seduced so many young people out there.
So please: every occhamist anglophones who fall so often victims of this lack of sharpness in spirit should remember the lightness of legends and their messages, the beauty of literature and its rhetoric charm… instead of letting their mind lock themselves into obnoxious arguments and deaf opinions.
I know I am nothing but a reader. OBinetti Quote. Some believe that the encient gods were re-written by different cultures overtime infact there is large amounts of evidence found by simply doing a google search or researching through adequite sources.
This also occured in England when christianity spread through Europe. These actions are apart of the overall evidence I have learned. But I like your story and your evedience, have you ever looked at the actual connections too? Thanks very much for your comment and the kind words. He is the actual basis for numerous dieties. And Jesus Christ has no connection to him. Please share your findings. Thanks again for your comments and I look forward to continuing the discussion, God bless.
Such arrogance as you exhibit it seems easy to come by these days. Speaking for God, interpreting and ignoring only the items that would respectively help and harm your case. There is nothing supernatural looking out for anyone. This is a fact. The Catholic Church has known about this because at least one priest begged his bishop to help him.
The bishop moved him again, where the cycle of sexual abuse continued to a total of six parishes. These children were members of the church, who trusted this man of god, His representative, and were given no protection from this omnipotent being. God has killed people just for turning around to look at a burning city when he said not to. Did this abhorrent act not warrant even a shaker of salt?
God used to talk to us all the time, so why not believe he is having a discussion with the guy down the block? Because, when you get down to it, you are all fearful doubters afraid to linger on that thought.
You would be correct to assume delusion in the pt with auditory hallucination. Where a story comes from matters as much as who made the car that ran over your dog. David Quote. Yumm Quote. No one seems to know that the Bibles new testament was written by the greeks, and what did they believe in?
They traded knowledge with Egyptians. Horus Seth and all those Egyptian gods are the star consolations, not real beings. Horus the rising sun, Seth, the setting sun. This is fact. To trace a religions stories, just go deeper into your research. Pastors who go to schools for this, learn this. All man are sons of God. The story of the Bible is older then the age of Jesus. Adam and eve were a population of people. Christians forth christianity on people, killed, chopped of heads and placed them on beaches of Africa.
Take the major words from the Bible, find their origin and the proof is in the pudding. May the highest gods bless you all. Donell Quote. Thanks very much for your comments. The New Testament was not written by Greeks. It was written by Jewish men from the province of Judea in the Roman Empire.
It just so happened that Greek was the predominate language of the world at that time and in that area, but the New testament authors were not from Greece or of Greek descent. I am not sure what you are trying to assert here nor am I sure of what evidence of this you are looking at. All throughout Scripture, Egypt is literally and symbolically portrayed as representative of the sinful, rebellious world.
Egypt is constantly a contrast to those who are faithful to the true and living God of the Bible. So to think that the Bible is based on Egyptian mystery religion or culture is not really logical or supported by the Biblical text. John And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. This is just one of the statements in which Jesus establishes Christianity — which is based on faith in Himself. This is not Judaism.
This is not the Mosaic law. Jesus is stating unequivocally that unless you believe in Him, you will go to Hell. Meaning it is replacing the Old Covenant Mosaid law. So while it may seem like Jesus was a Jew, He preached something far different from the Old Testament law. So Jesus is just a transliteration of his Greek name, Iesous , made for English speakers. All of this is based on the Greek. And it was written in Greek. Christians beheading Africans — When was this?
I am not sure what you are referring to. The thing is, you accuse Christianity of being arrogant because we believe we can live a life full of sin and be forgiven. But you are the one who believes that you have it in your own power to redeem yourself for the lifetime of sins you have committed. Christianity is all about humility before God. I cannot do anything to redeem myself. I cannot atone for my own clear sin. I am powerless and deserve your wrath and damnation because I am guilty.
And it is through putting our faith and trust in what Jesus did to redeem us that saves us. I just wanted to clarify. The crusades are evident enough! Jesus always gets a bad rap! He never intended this…Yes it is in our own power to redeem ourselves. You act like you have read the bible, then Have YOU? Always trying to prove their way is right ,so sad! Just because we Know something Does not make it True! Seek and You shall Find! To prove your way is right, Jesus does not want this….
Using his name to Judge , Condemn and bash others for not believing the way another might, constant war! You would do good to get a Hebrew -Greek translation! The Gnostic scriptures are considered bad.. These scriptures in these books are older than Bible. If your heart and mind are truly open then ,you would see we are all sparks of Divine Light good or bad and that still depends on Your perception of good or bad, what one might think is good could be bad to another…Stop Judging and sending people to Hell the grave- greek translation see Hell in not Literal Place I thought Jesus preached Life Not Death so stop it!!!!!!
It is good to debate but no need to hurt others trying to prove your belief! My belief is to Love You and others, to watch my words and speak life so with this, I leave! I bless all on this thread and ask to search with your Hearts and Mind Open. Love one another and Unite cause In Unity can we stop the true evil of this world and believe me I do not give Satan that much credit!!!!!!!
We are one and if you choose to stay separate so be it, but in Spirit we are truly united cause we were never separated from God, Source, Spirit to begin with, we were just taught to believe that!!
Like I said just cause we know does not mean it is Truth!!! You have truly motivated me to do an article on the Council of Nicea and the numerous lies about it from the fictional book the DaVinci Code.
It is stunning and sad to know that a work of fiction, could so affect the beliefs of people all over the world. As I asked before in this thread — have you read the minutes of the meeting of the Council of Nicea? Have you read any historical accounts from a credible academic about what was said at this meeting? Do you realize we still have the minutes today and you can read them online?
There was no conspiracy to pick books of the bible and suppress the Gnostic Gospels. This subjects were never even brought up. So you are unfortunately incorrect on this point.
As for sending people to Hell — I have no power to do this. Only God can. And listen to what Jesus said:. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Those who do not believe in Jesus as the Son of God for the forgivenss of their sins, are not a part of the faith. So know that when I speak about eternal damnation and hellfire for those who do not believe it is done out of care and love. I do not want people to suffer. Especially when forgiveness and eternal life is FREE. You do not have to do any action, perform a ritual or build something to receive it. But is this the case? Can it be demonstrated that Christianity borrowed from the cult of Mithra as it developed its theology?
First of all, Christianity does not need any outside influence to derive any of its doctrines. All the doctrines of Christianity exists in the Old Testament where we can see the prophetic teachings of Jesus as the son of God Zech.
Also, the writers of the gospels were eyewitnesses or directed by eyewitnesses as were Mark and Luke who accurately represented the life of Christ. So, what they did was write what Jesus taught as well as record the events of His life, death, and resurrection. In other words, they recorded history, actual events and had no need of fabrication or borrowing. There will undoubtedly be similarities in religious themes given the agrarian culture.
Remember, an agriculturally based society, as was the people of the ancient Mediterranean area, will undoubtedly develop theological themes based upon observable events, i. It would only be natural for similar themes to unfold since they are observed in nature and since people created gods related to nature.
Add to that the incredible archaeological evidence verifying Old Testament cities and events and you have a document based on historical fact instead of mythical fabrication.
As you can see, there is no need for any of the Christian writers to borrow from anything other than the Old Testament source in order to establish any Christian doctrine concerning Jesus. If the argument that pagan mythologies predated Christian teachings and therefore Christianity borrowed from them is true, then it must also be true that the pagan religions borrowed from the Jewish religion because it is older than they are! Think about it, the idea of a blood sacrifice and a covering for sin is found in the first three chapters of Genesis when God covered Adam and Eve with animals skins and prophesied the coming of the Messiah.
It would have been blasphemous for them to incorporate pagan sources into what they saw as the fulfillment of the sacred Old Testament scriptures concerning the Messiah. Why then would they lie and make up stories and suffer great persecution, hardships, ridicule, arrest, beatings, and death all for known lies and fabrications from paganism?
It doesn't make sense. At best, Mithraism only had some common themes with Christianity and Judaism which were recorded in both the Old and New Testaments.
Mithras and Jesus: Two sides of the same coin
Stories of miraculous births often include conceptions by miraculous circumstances and features such as intervention by a deity , supernatural elements, astronomical signs, hardship or, in the case of some mythologies, complex plots related to creation. Then he took over the place which Apsu had used for his cult and dwelt there with his spouse, Damkina. He was believed to have been "reincarnated" several times.
Berossos , priest of the Temple of Bel , in Babylon, knew of as many as six such reincarnations. In Hittite mythology , the god Anu was overthrown by his son Kumarbi ;  : 25  Anu attempted to flee, but Kumarbi bit off Anu's genitals and swallowed them, and banished him to the underworld. The belief in the conception of Horus by Isis is traced to the beginning of Egyptian history. Horus' conception and birth were understood in terms of the Egyptian doctrine of parthenogenesis , which was connected with the goddess Neith of Sais.
Many of the attributes of Isis, the God-mother, the mother of Horus; and of Neith , the goddess of Sais are identical with those of Mary the Mother of Christ. Of course, the legend of the birth of Horus has many elements not found even in the Apocryphal Gospels. Egyptian texts mention numerous forms of Horus. Then, by uniting with Osiris she conceives Horus.
Horus represented the rising sun and in this respect was comparable to the Greek Apollo. There were at least fifteen other Horuses in the Egyptian pantheon,  so in the story of Isis and Osiris Horus is "sometimes known as Harsiesis, to distinguish him from the others.
He is depicted as a falcon, or with a falcon's head. He eventually avenged Osiris' death and reclaimed the throne, ruling peacefully Herakhty, or 'Horus of the Horizon', was a sun god who rose each morning on the eastern horizon. He was often identified with the sun god, Ra, and was eventually absorbed by him, forming Ra-Herakhty. Lineal descent from Ra, whether by birth or by marriage, was claimed by all kings of Egypt at least since User-ka-f, first king of the V Dynasty, who was high priest of Ra at Heliopolis.
An important part of this tradition was the legend of the God Re generating with the wife of a priest. Many texts mention different attributes of Isis. These were combined into a single narrative by Plutarch in the 1st century AD. In her aspect of protector of Egypt and its people, Isis is depicted with huge outspread wings. She taught women to grind corn, to spin and to weave, and she taught the people how to cure illnesses. She instituted the rite of marriage. When her consort, Osiris, left Egypt to travel the world, Isis ruled the country in his absence.
Her following spread beyond Egypt to Greece and throughout the Roman Empire There is a myth on the birth of Hatshepsut. At this point Amun places the ankh , a symbol of life, to Ahmose's nose, and Hatshepsut is conceived by Ahmose. In the Hebrew Bible, and in later Jewish tradition there are stories of matriarchs giving birth where the God of Israel miraculously intervenes.
For example, within the Rabbinic literature expansions were made on the birth of the matriarch Sarah on the earlier Old Testament traditions. Due to her old age, Sarai was infertile, but a miracle was vouchsafed to her Genesis Rabbah xlvii.
When her youth had been restored and she had given birth to Isaac the people would not believe in the miracle, saying that the patriarch and his wife had adopted a foundling and pretended that it was their own son. Abraham thereupon invited all the notables to a banquet on the day when Isaac was to be weaned. Sarah invited the women, who brought their infants with them, and on this occasion she gave milk from her breasts to all the children, thus convincing the guests of the miracle B.
According to Isaiah , around BC King Ahaz of Judah received a message from the prophet Isaiah during the Syro-Ephraimite War with Aram Syria and Israel, "Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.
The Greek Septuagint and some later Christian translations, following the application of Isaiah 7 in Matthew 1, use the word "virgin". The Hebrew word alma actually translates as a young woman of childbearing age who had not yet given birth and who might or might not be a virgin, whereas the Hebrew betulah , used elsewhere in Isaiah, is the word that means "virgin.
The Christian world believes that the verse is a messianic prediction of the miraculous birth of Jesus, as described in various gospels of the New Testament of the Bible. The Second Book of Enoch contains a section, called Exaltation of Melchizedek , which says that Melchizedek was born of a virgin, Sofonim or Sopanima , the wife of Nir, a brother of Noah.
The child came out from his mother after she had died and sat on the bed beside her corpse, already physically developed, clothed, speaking and blessing the Lord, and marked with the badge of priesthood. Forty days later, Melchizedek was taken by the archangel Gabriel Michael in some manuscripts to the Garden of Eden and was thus preserved from the Deluge without having to be in Noah's Ark. The ancient form of his name in the Avesta is Zarathustra.
His native country was probably Media in Western Iran, possibly in modern Azerbaijan , but his ministry took place in eastern Iran, especially in the region of Bactria , about BC. Zoroaster was originally a Magian priest, and under the reforms he instituted, Mithra became one of the Yazatas Worshipful Ones , the angels or lesser divine beings. Greco-Roman and Hellenistic literature is rich in the tradition of birth among the gods. In his poem Theogony , the Greek poet Hesiod tells a story that Zeus had once lain with the goddess Metis , impregnating her, but, fearing that she might bear a child mightier than he himself, he swallowed her.
Helios was a child of Zeus by Euryphaessa. He was also called "the son of Earth and starry Heaven," and the son of Hyperion. Dionysus was dithyrambus, "he who entered life by a double door. His mother, Semele, died when Zeus appeared to her in a flash of lightning, and so Zeus opened his own flesh and enclosed the infant. In time, Dionysus was born "perfect" from Zeus' thigh. Dionysus Zagreus was important in Orphic theology. In Protrepticus ii.
Zeus intended to make him the ruler of the universe but the jealous Titans lured the child away, tore him to pieces, cooked him and ate him. Athena preserved his heart, however, which Zeus swallowed. According to Boslooper, Clement omitted one part of the myth that forms a connection between his account and the Theban legend of Dionysus.
In Indian mythology, Mithra is known as Mitra. He was originally a god of contracts and friendship and was a forerunner of the Graeco-Roman god Mithras. In Iran , he developed into the protector of truth. Before the time of Zoroaster, he was associated with Ahura Mazda , the principle of good. As a consequence of Zoroaster's reforms to Iranian religion, Mithra was ousted from power and Ahura Mazda became supreme. Mithraism absorbed astrology from the Chaldeans after the Chaldean conquest, and continued as an astronomical religion.
In the Hellenistic period it took on its final form. The love of a god for a mortal, resulting in the birth of a hero, is one notable deviation from the tradition of the origin of gods. The legend of Perseus , whose mother conceived him when Jupiter came to her in the form of a golden shower, is one example of this type cf. Ovid, Metamorphoses, Book IV. The Greek Anthology has the following: Zeus , turned to gold, piercing the brazen chamber of Danae, cut the knot of intact virginity.
He said that Theseus' grandfather Pittheus invented the story that Theseus was the child of Neptune to conceal Theseus' lineage as the son of Pittheus' daughter Aethra and Aegeus "Lives", Vol. But there were other stories about the birth of Romulus and his brother Remus. The story of Romulus' divine origin says that his mother was the mortal daughter of Aeneas and Lavinia, and his father was Mars. In his "Hymn to Asclepius", Homer attributes his origin to the god Apollo and the daughter of a renowned soldier, King Phlegyas.
The belief that religion was concerned with sickness and disease was central to his cult. His sanctuaries in the Greco-Roman world became so famous there was a movement to make him a god of the first rank and identify him with Zeus himself.
Asclepius was "the one who leads and controls all things, the savior of the whole world, and the guardian of mortals. Helen of Troy was worshiped as a heroine in several parts of the ancient world during the early historical epoch. Euripides ' play "Helen" depends on a tradition begun in the early 6th century B. But this might simply be a poetic way of saying that she was hatched from an egg. There are two versions of the birth of Oedipus. He was given a semidivine status in Sophocles ' "Oedipus the King," where he was said to be the son of either Pan , Loxias, "or the Bacchants' god, dweller on the hilltops But in Euripides' "Phoenissae," his mother, Jocasta, says Oedupus is the son of Laius, a mortal, who was warned by the god Phoebus not to have children.
Laius ignored the warning, but after the child was born he gave him to shepherds to expose on Mount Cithaeron. The child was found and raised among the keepers of the horses of Polybus. As a grown man, Oedipus did indeed kill his father, not realizing who he was, and then married his mother. When he discovered the truth he blinded himself. In this story, he is clearly considered to be the son of Laius and Jocasta.
This is also obvious in Sophocles' "Oedipus the King". Romulus and Remus , the legendary twin founders of the city of Rome , were said to have been born to a Vestal Virgin , Rhea Silvia. Rhea Silvia had been forced to become a Vestal Virgin against her will and claimed to have been impregnated through divine intervention.
Livy attests that she was instead raped by an unknown man. In any case King Amulius ordered the twins to be drowned as death through the elements would not trigger divine punishment. Alexander, the Ptolemies, and the Caesars were said by some scholars to have been "virgin-born.
Inscriptions show that he and the Ptolemies after him had the incidents of their birth regularly depicted in temple reliefs. However, evidence shows that Alexander must have had a double tradition of origin. It is recorded that "Alexander the Great and Augustus are deemed to have been conceived of a serpent god, and they claimed between them Phoebus and Jupiter as their progenitors.
Before him the same title was given to Seleucid and other Hellenistic kings. Throughout this period there were frequent longings for a savior from the present troubles. A few months before he was born a portent was observed at Rome which gave warning that nature was pregnant with a king for the Roman People.
In one, Suetonius narrates what he learned from Asclepias of Mendes:. On a sudden a serpent glided up to her and shortly went away.